The Morning: The best conversations

On podcasts and in person, the goal is simply to connect.

View in browser|nytimes.com August 3, 2024 By Melissa Kirsch Good morning. The best conversations — to participate in or listen to — are the ones where people forget about the outcome and manage to just connect. María Jesús Contreras Easy listening After my recent flight from Maine to New York was canceled, I found myself with the bounty of six hours alone in a rental car. I considered the headway I could make in the audiobook of "Demon Copperhead," but quickly abandoned that option for several episodes of the podcast "Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend." I wanted company. If I couldn't chat away the hours with a passenger in the seat beside me, I wanted to listen to other people hitting it off. Most episodes of the show run about an hour. Conan and his sidekicks shoot the breeze for a while, before he brings on a celebrity guest for an interview. The tone of the podcast is buoyant, full of comedic bits and good-natured teasing. It's a fizzy soft drink, fun and weird and straightforward enough that you can follow along while keeping one eye on the GPS as you navigate the traffic around Worcester. I listen to a lot of conversation-style podcasts — interview programs and panel discussions and shows where friends sit around and talk about whatever's on their minds. What am I looking for in these podcasts? When celebrities are in the mix, there's the thrill of getting a glimpse into the personal life of a public figure. When an expert is interviewed, I'm hoping to learn something. But I think what I'm really listening for is connection. The shows I love aren't the ones where a host tees up questions and a dutiful guest answers. They're the ones where you feel like you're eavesdropping on real people getting closer, closer to each other or closer to a conversational destination that they didn't know they were headed for when they set out. Conan O'Brien has been having conversations professionally for most of his career. On his late-night shows, stars came on to promote their latest film projects, and he brought enough warmth and humor and weirdness to their repartee that viewers didn't mind that they were being advertised to. His podcast feels much more intimate. I don't delude myself that the sweet, affectionate chat Conan had with Woody Harrelson and Ted Danson on "Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend" is identical to the one they'd have if they weren't creating entertainment for public consumption. But somewhere outside Hartford, I found myself so thoroughly entertained I stopped doing that thing where you keep pushing the speed limit a little more, hoping you'll be able to knock a few minutes off your E.T.A. I didn't care how long I had to go; I just wanted to keep listening and laughing along. I've been making some conversation-style audio with The Times lately, and it's made me listen to podcasts differently. It's made me listen to other people differently. Is what makes a conversation interesting to take part in the same as what makes one interesting to listen to? My favorite conversations with friends, the ones in which I feel most connected, are sprawling, digressive, even repetitive. They go on for hours and often fail to reach a coherent conclusion. But they have a key ingredient in common with the podcasts that I love: presence. In the best conversations, whether they're between you and your mom on a marathon phone call or between a professional chat host and his comedically gifted guest, everyone is listening closely. They're curious about each other, asking what my friend Aliza calls "generous questions." They're reacting authentically in the moment without a script or an agenda. They're allowing the conversation to happen without muscling it toward any predetermined outcome. For more Read Jason Zinoman's recent interview with Conan O'Brien. Recently on "Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend": Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson, James Corden, and Carol Burnett. "If we are going to accompany someone well, we need to abandon the efficiency mind-set. We need to take our time and simply delight in another person's way of being." David Brooks has a bunch of excellent advice on how to be present in conversation. From 2020, seven celebrity podcasts worth listening to. THE WEEK IN CULTURE Theater Keanu Reeves and Alex Winter. Magdalena Wosinska for The New York Times Keanu Reeves and Alex Winter, who played the titular slackers in the "Bill and Ted" movies, will reunite next year on Broadway in a revival of "Waiting for Godot." Lin-Manuel Miranda revealed his next project: a concept album based on "The Warriors," the 1970s film about roving gangs in New York City. This week was the centennial of James Baldwin's birth. A writer explored "Blues for Mister Charlie," his debut Broadway play about the murder of a Black man. Film and TV More than a dozen participants in "Beast Games," a new reality show by the popular YouTuber MrBeast, told The Times that they had not received adequate food or medical care. Read how the producers of "House of the Dragon," the "Game of Thrones" prequel series, made dragons believably bigger and more prominent. Making fun of superhero movies used to be the Deadpool signature. But the latest installment, "Deadpool & Wolverine," is just another formulaic Marvel film, Maya Phillips writes. In court filings, the creator of Netflix's "Baby Reindeer" said that while he had been stalked by the woman who claims she inspired the show, the series was a fictionalized account. Maya Rudolph will reprise her Emmy-winning depiction of Kamala Harris on "Saturday Night Live" through the 2024 election, Deadline reports. Other Big Stories From left, Alex Durand and Tom Carles of AT Frenchies and Kristy Scott of The Scotts. Dmitry Kostyukov for The New York Times NBC, in an effort to reach a younger audience, has recruited online content creators to work with the network on the Paris Olympics. Some athletes in Paris are winning gold. Others — like two charismatic pistol shooters and Pommel Horse Guy — are winning the internet. JD Vance's 2016 memoir, "Hillbilly Elegy," has sold 750,000 copies since Donald Trump picked Vance as his running mate. Cleopatra and Lucrezia Borgia: National Geographic highlighted rebellious female historical figures who embody the "brat" persona, inspired by Charli XCX. Yemenat in Brooklyn offers Yemeni delights rarely found in New York City. Read Pete Wells's review. THE LATEST NEWS 2024 Election Vice President Kamala Harris on Thursday. Eric Lee/The New York Times Vice President Kamala Harris won enough delegates to secure the Democratic Party's nomination for president. Donald Trump's focus on Harris's identity has pushed a timeworn political tactic — presenting an opponent as somehow "other" — to a different level, Adam Nagourney writes. Should Harris talk more about her race? Many voters say no. "Obviously, we have eyes," one said. Other Big Stories The U.S. is sending more combat aircrafts and warships to the Middle East, in response to growing tension since the assassination of a Hamas leader this week. Iran has arrested more than two dozen people, including senior intelligence officers and military officials, after an embarrassing security lapse led to the assassination. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin revoked a plea deal the U.S. had recently reached with the accused mastermind of the 9/11 attacks and two accomplices. The U.S. job market significantly slowed in July, and the unemployment rate rose. Stocks fell sharply after the job report was released. Parts of Florida are under a hurricane watch. The forecast shows heavy rain, gusty winds and possible flash flooding. Subscribe Today The Morning highlights a small portion of the journalism that The New York Times offers. To access all of it, become a subscriber with this introductory offer. CULTURE CALENDAR By Desiree Ibekwe 🎥 "It Ends With Us": Even if you think you haven't heard of Colleen Hoover, you've probably seen one of her books if you've entered a bookstore in the last few years. She is incredibly popular: In 2022, her books outsold the Bible; she has a dedicated fan base (known as the CoHorts) turbocharged by BookTok; and now, one of her books has become a feature film. This movie, which stars Blake Lively, is about a florist named (improbably) Lily Bloom, who moves to Boston and falls for a neurosurgeon. Whatever one might think of Hoover, the movie is sure to be a cultural moment. RECIPE OF THE WEEK Armando Rafael for The New York Times By Melissa Clark Grilled Tofu As we slide into these languid last weeks of summer, it's time to ask yourself: Have you spent enough time at the grill? If the answer is no, fear not! The team at Wirecutter is here to help with their August Grilling Challenge, which starts next week. Every Tuesday for the rest of the month, you'll get an email with our favorite grilling recipes, along with Wirecutter's recommendations for the best grilling gear — and exclusive discounts. (Sign up here.) In the meantime, why not make Kay Chun's tangy-sweet grilled tofu? This easy recipe calls for soaking the tofu in a hot marinade spiked with ginger, black pepper and soy sauce, which is absorbed by the tofu in three hours instead of overnight. And if you don't have a grill, a grill pan or broiler will work just as well. REAL ESTATE Javier Herrera JJ Geiger for The New York Times The Hunt: A young schoolteacher in California wanted a three-bedroom home for $350,000. Which house did he choose? Play our game. What you get for $675,000: A 2008 three-bedroom house in Weston, Vt.; an 1854 cottage in New Orleans; or an 1896 Queen Anne Revival house in Ocean Grove, N.J. Pandemic fallout: An office tower in Midtown Manhattan sold for $8.5 million. It was once worth 40 times that. LIVING Kainoa Gruspe weaves with lau. Daeja Fallas for The New York Times Tradition: On the Hawaiian islands, artisans have been reviving the age-old practice of turning tree leaves into mats. Birthrates: Many Americans are choosing not to have children — and it's not, experts say, because of selfishness. The Ethicist: "Can I ask straight women to stop calling their pals their 'girlfriends'?" Celebrity coffee: Household names including Tom Hanks and The Weeknd are betting big on brew, hawking it with their own labels. ADVICE FROM WIRECUTTER Don't let sweat damage your tech While modern devices like smartphones and earbuds are designed to withstand everyday wear and tear — including exposure to small amounts of moisture — they're not invincible, especially when summer rolls around and life gets sweatier. Perspiration can deteriorate your tech over time. Fortunately, there are easy measures you can take to ensure your sweat doesn't do any lasting damage. Wirecutter experts recommend limiting how much your devices come into contact with your skin, cleaning them at least once a week and keeping silica-gel packs where you stash your tech, which helps to soak up moisture. And no matter how wet your phone gets, don't put it in a bag of rice. — Rose Maura Lorre OLYMPICS GUIDE Sha'Carri Richardson won her heat on Friday. Jewel Samad/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images Saturday Track: It's been more than two decades since an American held the title of world's fastest woman. Sha'Carri Richardson, who missed the Tokyo Games after she tested positive for marijuana, has a shot at the crown today. She's a favorite in the 100 meters. Gymnastics: Simone Biles goes for gold in the vault, an event she won at the 2016 Games in Rio de Janeiro. Swimming: Katie Ledecky has another shot at history. If she wins the 800-meter freestyle, she will become only the second swimmer — along with Michael Phelps — to win four gold medals in the same event. Sunday Table tennis: You've almost certainly played table tennis. Watch this final, between Truls Moregardh of Sweden and Fan Zhendong of China, to understand just how much better Olympians are at it than the rest of us. Track: If Richardson wins the women's 100 meters on Saturday, anticipation will be high for Noah Lyles to complete the U.S. sweep. Lyles is also a favorite in the 200 meters. The last American man to win both events was Carl Lewis. Tennis: The men's gold medal match is a rematch of last month's Wimbledon final, with Carlos Alcaraz, the 21-year-old Spanish phenom, facing Novak Djokovic. NOW TIME TO PLAY Here is today's Spelling Bee. Yesterday's pangram was hackney. Take the news quiz to see how well you followed this week's headlines. And here are today's Mini Crossword, Wordle, Sudoku, Connections and Strands. Thanks for spending part of your weekend with The Times. — Melissa Sign up here to get this newsletter in your inbox. Reach our team at themorning@nytimes.com. Editor: David Leonhardt Deputy Editor: Adam B. Kushner News Editor: Tom Wright-Piersanti Associate Editor: Lauren Jackson News Staff: Desiree Ibekwe, Sean Kawasaki-Culligan, Brent Lewis, German Lopez, Ian Prasad Philbrick, Ashley Wu News Assistant: Lyna Bentahar Saturday Writer: Melissa Kirsch Need help? Review our newsletter help page or contact us for assistance. 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